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Forums | General Discussion Forum | New tow rig! Post Reply Send Topic To a Friend
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Kooter
Maryland Heights, MO
Online Member
Posted - 16 March 2014 9:23  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
I can tell you that I can guess pretty accurately my trailer weight by taking the total weight - my curb weight. That would leave my trailer and gear.

Total weight - 24260
Curb weight of the truck - 7500
Trailer and gear - 16760
16760/4= 4190

Steer axle + Drive axle = 11320
Axle total - curb weight = 3820

Thats pretty much 1/4 of the calculated trailer/gear weight by my math.

Kooter
Maryland Heights, MO
Online Member
Posted - 16 March 2014 9:27  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
Based on the curb weight listed by Dodge, I exceeded the max trailer weight by about 1500lbs. That could vary based on what my truck actually weighed. I have weighed it and their number is pretty close IRRC.
chrispy
, CO
Online Member
Posted - 16 March 2014 12:5  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
yea, kooter.. you got the numbers right...ive just seen some people who believe that the trailer scaled at 12000# so thats what it 'weighs', when in fact it weighs much more.

quote:
my tag on the door says my front axle is rated for 5200 and rear is 6200. Thats 11400 in my book even though Dodge's rating is lower at 9900 GVWR.

on axle weights, dodge and the others are specific in rating the axles separate from the truck... this is because trucks are configured differently.. one might have a plow/winch on the front axle, while another might have a camper on the back, etc... so they state

quote:
...the GAWR's and GVWR's should never be exceeded

so your door jam says 5200 and rear is 6200, and the scale shows 5060 and 6260...
you were overloaded:

on the rear GAWR by 60#
on the truck itself by 1420# [(5060+6260) - 9900 GVWR]
and on the CGVW by 1260# (24260-23000)
you also overloaded the max trailer weight by 1210# (16760 - 15250)

These newer trucks have such amazing powertrains, that some folks who are ignorant of the design limitations foolishly believe that because a truck will PULL a load, that it 'tows fine' or 'pulls great'..but overloading a truck.. whether its a half ton gas or 1 ton diesel, by almost 3/4's of a ton is asking for trouble.

probably not as prevalent back there in missouri, but my department and our neighboring departments respond probably a twenty times a year to MVA's where someone pulling a bobcat or a 2-3 car wedge had no trouble powering up the grade, but coming down the other side couldnt control the load, even by using transmission and proper braking, and either jackknifed or rolled with the principle cause being an overloaded truck.. invariably , if the driver is conscious, we hear something along the lines of 'i dont know what happened, i tow this load all the time' .. or 'it towed fine, and then....'

Mr Moke
St Peters, MO
MWJT Director of Events
Posted - 16 March 2014 12:29  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
Lots of good info here. Thanks, guys!

*****************************
BLESSED ARE THE CRACKED FOR THEY ARE THE ONES WHO LET IN THE LIGHT!

STANG
Ofallon, MO
Club Member
Posted - 16 March 2014 20:9  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
So I sold my dodge and I'm currently looking for a replacement. Will a Chevy Aveo tow a Seadoo trailer with out being overloaded?
xj6in
Where hi-cap mags are legal and pot is not!!!, MO
Online Member
Posted - 16 March 2014 21:35  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
You'll need to install a gooseneck hitch to make it legal...
chrispy
, CO
Online Member
Posted - 16 March 2014 23:32  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
as usual, Dave, you are wrong again... there are no DOT certified goose neck hitches made for the Aveo, so it would not be legal.

Wayne, page 259 of the Aveo Owners Manual states :

quote:
do not use your vehicle to tow a trailer. The vehicle is not designed or intended for such a use. Towing a trailer can adversely affect handling, durability, and fuel economy

seeing as it is the manufacturers specifications, it's a good idea to know and understand the vehicle's limitation, even if I did happen to see someone towing with their Aveo, and they didn't die.

you will probably have to seek a different vehicle if you want to tow your seadoo's.

Edited by - chrispy on 3/16/2014 11:35:13 PM

Mr Moke
St Peters, MO
MWJT Director of Events
Posted - 17 March 2014 7:43  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
I would imaging there is nothing in the manual about putting it on the roof. Just make sure you use at least two straps.
xj6in
Where hi-cap mags are legal and pot is not!!!, MO
Online Member
Posted - 17 March 2014 9:41  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
I was going to suggest a high end crossbar rack like a thule brand, then run safety chain through the back windows.
Lil Toe
Labadie, MO
Club Member
Posted - 17 March 2014 10:25  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
Yes, you can put a gooseneck on a car:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/21720402-post7604.html

I also would not take the word of anyone at the license office on what weight tags to put on your truck, they let my grandparents put 6k plates on a Ford CC dually and they pulled a 35' fifth wheel with it. This is the same offices that will sell you a completely illegal license plate cover (the law reads anything that obscures the reflectivity of the plate) and it is of course probable cause to get pulled over.

Unless the newer trucks have changed, there are no GCWR #'s on the door sticker on pickups, only GVWR. That means the DOT doesn't care if you are pulling a double wide down the road as long as no single axle on the whole rig is overweight (your insurance company may make an exception if you have an accident however.)

As far as what weight tags to get, MO does count the entire rig (truck and trailer). Of course, you get into the whole federal DOT rules of over 10k trailer rating and whether you need a CDL, this is really a becoming a gray area as some states are cracking down on this for race teams and the like. Regular Jeeps probably won't raise a flag, but anything that looks like a competition buggy may get harassed in some areas.

As far as weigh stations, my truck has my name on the side of it with 26k plates on it and I've never pulled into one, even pulling large farm equipment around and when I used to pull my show truck all over the eastern US. I look at it as I'm running private haul, they don't make snowbirds pull in with their tandem dual and triple axle fifth wheels and I can guarantee most of those are overweight on at least one axle.

FYI, we weighed pilgrim's truck with my trailer and the Jeeps coming back from Moab last time and we were 24k plus.

chrispy
, CO
Online Member
Posted - 17 March 2014 10:59  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
Toe: yes, the VW hitch is pretty funny, but, not covered in the Aveo owners manual. they make hitches for the Aveo also, however, just because a product is made, doesnt mean the vehicle is designed for it. look at all these idiots using warn "10,000#" receiver clevis mounts on hitches rated at no more than 2000# as extraction points! lol!

that said, Many states use portable/mobile scales on non-interstate highways. Colorado has 2 such units, and i know for a fact Utah has a couple as well.

they will set up on the side of a STATE highway, (again, non interstate), and pull over just about anything that looks heavy..

my suspicion is that the interstate coops are primarily there for interstate trucking regulation, and i know they get some federal funding.. but there just isnt enough manpower to pull over every large vehicle that passes by without scaling.

but the portable units are state funded, more aggressively pursue violators... the mobile unit on my commute last fall was staffed by a pair of DOT folks, and two CHP cruisers, and had a 1 ton with a large skid steer pulled over....

as to the DMV, if you tell them you want car plates for a vehicle that seats more than (3?) people, they will sell it to you. the people at the DMV are not responsible for code enforcement, they simply issue you the plates unless they have orders otherwise a crew cab truck is really no different than a hummer H2 or a van.. if someone wants to use it as a 'car' they can.. its up to the owner to not be ignorant of the law with respect to application of plates, etc.

STANG
Ofallon, MO
Club Member
Posted - 17 March 2014 12:6  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
Well bummer really had my heart set on a Aveo. Guess I'll look for a CC SRW f-250/350 with a 6.4 or 6.7. Darn the bad luck.
Mr Moke
St Peters, MO
MWJT Director of Events
Posted - 17 March 2014 13:21  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
Well, I can always change my mind in a year.
JN JEEP 2
Centralia, IL
Club Member
Posted - 17 March 2014 13:39  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides

Lil Toe
Labadie, MO
Club Member
Posted - 17 March 2014 13:47  Show Profile  Email Poster  Edit or Delete Message  GoTo Member Rides
Moke - If you decide to up the weight, you don't have to wait until next year, simply go in with that plate and they will simply charge you the difference and give you the new one.

18k and up plates are like trailer plates, you don't have the penalty and if you don't use your truck the first part of the year (I know you will, just saying) you can pay the "prorate" per quarter.

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